Hi, just so everyone is clear on what this tribe is about, i'm including the description below:
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** Were you raised fundamentalist?
** Did you get over it?
** Are you a fairly decent person even though you stopped going to worship?
** Do your eyes glaze over when your recovering-Catholic friends rant about the evils of organized religion?
** Have you realized that pagans are twice as boring, preachy and self-righteous as any Baptist bible-thumper?
Well! This is the place for you! Talk about whatever, as long as it's not goddish type stuff. I mean, we got a lifetime supply of that already, right?
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(me, again)
OK...as someone who was raised fundamentalist and doesn't feel particuarly harmed by the experience, I also recognize that my background makes me a little different from people with a more mainstream upbringing. I'm more tolerant of some things, less tolerant of others, etc etc
When I went looking for people like me, it was funny. All I could find were two categories:
1. people ranting and beating their chests about how awful Christianity is
2. people ranting and beating their chests about how everyone else is going to hell
yawn.
I don't get it. I had hoped to find some other Tribe-ers who I could bond with over all the silliness. When I mention that I grew up praying a minimum of five times a day, and studying scritpure every morning before school, most people from mainstream childhoods instantly take to mean that I clawed my way out of some Jamestown hellhole to escape drinking purple Koolaid or something and am horribly scarred from having to actually attend worship outside of one hour in Sunday School each week.
Although as I say, religion was very influential in my childhood, most of the people in it were decent human beings.
Yah, they had a stick up the ass on some matters, and were just plain wrongheaded on other things. Sure the proselytizing thing is really obnoxious. But they weren't cruel or psychotic. Am I really the only one who has encountered decent, kind people who just happen to be overly devout?
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** Were you raised fundamentalist?
** Did you get over it?
** Are you a fairly decent person even though you stopped going to worship?
** Do your eyes glaze over when your recovering-Catholic friends rant about the evils of organized religion?
** Have you realized that pagans are twice as boring, preachy and self-righteous as any Baptist bible-thumper?
Well! This is the place for you! Talk about whatever, as long as it's not goddish type stuff. I mean, we got a lifetime supply of that already, right?
==============================
(me, again)
OK...as someone who was raised fundamentalist and doesn't feel particuarly harmed by the experience, I also recognize that my background makes me a little different from people with a more mainstream upbringing. I'm more tolerant of some things, less tolerant of others, etc etc
When I went looking for people like me, it was funny. All I could find were two categories:
1. people ranting and beating their chests about how awful Christianity is
2. people ranting and beating their chests about how everyone else is going to hell
yawn.
I don't get it. I had hoped to find some other Tribe-ers who I could bond with over all the silliness. When I mention that I grew up praying a minimum of five times a day, and studying scritpure every morning before school, most people from mainstream childhoods instantly take to mean that I clawed my way out of some Jamestown hellhole to escape drinking purple Koolaid or something and am horribly scarred from having to actually attend worship outside of one hour in Sunday School each week.
Although as I say, religion was very influential in my childhood, most of the people in it were decent human beings.
Yah, they had a stick up the ass on some matters, and were just plain wrongheaded on other things. Sure the proselytizing thing is really obnoxious. But they weren't cruel or psychotic. Am I really the only one who has encountered decent, kind people who just happen to be overly devout?
posted by:
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Fri, December 26, 2003 - 11:14 PMWhen I went looking for people like me, it was funny. All I could find were two categories:
1. people ranting and beating their chests about how awful Christianity is
2. people ranting and beating their chests about how everyone else is going to hell
Maybe that's all there are ...
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Thu, January 1, 2004 - 8:55 PMcool, i've been wanting us to get this Tribe started!
** Were you raised fundamentalist?
i was raised by a non-practicing Methodist mother and non-practicing nothing father. however, at age 12, i was invited by my best guy friend (who's now a laid-back Buddhist)
to do some Youth thing w/ him at his and his parents' church, an Assembly of God outfit (they're quite fundamentalist; don't even believe in drinking or dancing). i went, loved the other kids (most of whom are now Buddhist or non-practicing anything), and so, started going every Wed. night. eventually, my mother (who had at first vehemently protested) got involved in the church (she was best friends w/ my guy-friend's mom), and my father eventually started going, too. now, my mom goes to another church, and my dad goes nowhere.
i went to this church 'til i went to college. when i was home from college, i'd go occasionally w/ my parents. now, i refuse to go at all.
** Did you get over it?
yes. looking back, i don't think i ever bought into the stuff completely, though i prayed a lot and such as a teen, as you did. i didn't walk around professing it like others did, though, but that's not befitting of my personality, anyway. however, it did effect some of my thinking, which i've mainly worked through. i experienced guilt feelings about things, esp. in my early 20's (i'm now 34).
** Are you a fairly decent person even though you stopped going to worship?
sure. same as always, maybe better. (i'm very introspective, and constantly try to improve things about myself i don't care for.)
** Do your eyes glaze over when your recovering-Catholic friends rant about the evils of organized religion?
yes. wimps.
** Have you realized that pagans are twice as boring, preachy and self-righteous as any Baptist bible-thumper?
yes. Baptists hold *nothing* to these militaristic freaks.
> I'm more tolerant of some things, less tolerant of others, etc >etc
yes. b/c i turned out pretty much unscathed after all, i don't regret these experiences. i know exactly what you mean.
>When I went looking for people like me, it was funny. All I >could find were two categories:
>1. people ranting and beating their chests about how awful >Christianity is
>2. people ranting and beating their chests about how everyone >else is going to hell
>yawn.
yes. brilliant idea for a group, you had.
>I don't get it. I had hoped to find some other Tribe-ers who I >could bond with over all the silliness. When I mention that I
yes. i tend to enjoy making light of my experiences (hence, my posting of the picture of me as "Mary"), rather than foaming at the mouth at how they "harmed" me.
intelligent people should be able to turn any experience into one that leads to personal growth of some stripe.
> But they weren't cruel or psychotic. Am I really the only one >who has encountered decent, kind people who just happen to be >overly devout?
i know some very, very nice people who have helped me a lot who are "overly devout."
m -
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Fri, January 2, 2004 - 10:34 PMyeah it's funny that I know a few other belly dancers who come from strict religious backgrounds and we have the easiest time navigating in Muslim culture. I think it's because most Muslims are actually pretty moderate and the world viewpoint is actually not very different. (Your average Muslim is like a Catholic who lives in Italy -- it's a huge part of the culture, but they still have their own stuff going on)
The best way I ever found to put it is that it's being from a background where the presence of god is constantly acknowledged (which is different from praying) that it can gift one with a knack for introspection. Kind of like yoga in a way.
Like I said I was brought up to pray before bed, upon rising and before every meal. So that's 5 times - more if you're a food junkie like me ;-) So, you have 5 quasi-random times throughout the day where you have to figure out where you stand mentally/emotionally and what you have to be grateful for. I think that's sort of like yoga but correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, I also wonder if the experience bred a kind of ruthlessness into me. Because I give extremely short shrift to people who claim to be "spiritual" and don't know squat about theology. I think it's because I know that really adhering to the tenets of Christianity takes SO much work. (That's one reason I don't claim to be one)
It's perfectly possible to be a fine human being without being religious at all. I have had "religious" friends who have sex, lie to save face socially, etc etc etc. So they're not playing by the rules of the game they say they have chosen, because that requires too much self discipline. I alwayss think they are good people but lazy & don't understand why they feel compelled to give lipservice to a value system they obviously don't jibe with.. maybe wanting the sanctimonious points without the rigors? I dunno...
just random thoughts. -
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Tue, January 6, 2004 - 12:22 AM
off topic: how did you become a belly dancer? where were you born?
>The best way I ever found to put it is that it's being from a >background where the presence of god is constantly acknowledged
yes, when i was attending church all the time, that's how it felt. despite the fact i didn't buy into all the stuff, that's the feeling that was pervasive, at least by the fundamentalist church i went to.
>Like I said I was brought up to pray before bed, upon rising >and before every meal. So that's 5 times - more if you're a >food junkie like me ;-)
did you ever feel like if you didn't legalistically pray that something "bad" would happen? sort-of like OCD-type behaviors?
>It's perfectly possible to be a fine human being without being >religious at all. I have had "religious" friends who have sex, >lie to save face socially, etc etc etc. So they're not playing
sure. hypocrisy abounds in organized religions, as in all other areas of life (the corporate world, etc.).
m -
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Tue, January 6, 2004 - 12:39 PMHi M,
I was born and raised in Boston. The whole dance shebang if you are curious is at www.joyofbellydancing.com/spotlight2.htm
>did you ever feel like if you didn't legalistically pray that something "bad" would happen? sort-of like OCD-type behaviors?
Not OCD, more "ought to have". Same feeling I have as an adult if I don't bruch my teeth in the morning. It would feel like I wasn't ready to meet the day. But nnot like fearful or anything.
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Fri, January 30, 2004 - 9:05 PM** Were you raised fundamentalist?
I don't consider my upbringing fundamentalist (not lots of praying and bible reading), but there were certainly elements a) masturbation was a "sin" b) strong physical discipline ("spare the rod, spoil the child") c) father's word = god's word d) the first time I ever used "Jesus" as an exclamation (of blasphemy?) in front of my father, I was slapped so hard I almost fell down... I wasn't allowed to go to concerts (but broke that rule at 16), and the main social events were church-related.
** Did you get over it?
Two strikes? I'm almost over it, but there are a few scars.
** Are you a fairly decent person even though you stopped going to worship?
Hell ya ! I'm stupidly honest in my endeavors. I don't know when to keep my mouth shut (honesty is not always the best policy), and I still feel guilty about a few things that I shouldn't. However, I don't believe I'm going to hell anymore, and the concept of god is just that, and it's not a concept that I find useful (see above: father's word = god's word).
** Do your eyes glaze over when your recovering-Catholic friends rant about the evils of organized religion?
YES ! I joined the Humanist Community. However, they seem to be dominated by a seige mentality, without offering positive, supportive alternatives. It was nice to find an organized "religion" that wasn't a "religion", but the Humanists seem to harbor alot of people scarred worse than I am. Burning Man is a great atmosphere, but the interactions are rather superficial. How about something in between?
** Have you realized that pagans are twice as boring, preachy and self-righteous as any Baptist bible-thumper?
Some of them definitely are, but some of them are as nice as Christians :-) One of my best friends considers herself pagan, but attends Quaker and Presbyterian services as well. She's a wonderful person.
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 5:13 PMBeing a SF fan and a So. Baptist in the Bible Belt is a challenge unto itsself. Being a NON-sports fan is what made me weird.
In answer to some of the questions.....
** Were you raised fundamentalist? Yes. Deacon's kid.
** Did you get over it? Not entirely. I found fandom and opened my eyes a bit more.
** Are you a fairly decent person even though you stopped going to worship? Never stopped. The rule was if you live at home, you go to church on Sunday. I found ways to avoid certain preachers that I didn't like. Lived at home to take care of elderly parents and just couldn't afford to move out.
** Do your eyes glaze over when your recovering-Catholic friends rant about the evils of organized religion? ... You mean the pagan types who have been "hurt" by some church, as if everyone hasn't been at some time in their life? Especially the teen years?
** Have you realized that pagans are twice as boring, preachy and self-righteous as any Baptist bible-thumper? .....
I might stop laughing at this eventually. I've experienced more open season on Baptists/Fundamentalists at SF cons that I want to remember. Of course, you can't say anything about the hate the pagans spread, even though they are supposed to ".. do no harm."
Am I unscathed? Not entirely. I just decided that those people who wanted power were not worth my time and found a church that walked the talk.
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Tue, November 15, 2005 - 9:55 AMNo, you're not alone. My family was the same way. Incredibly decent people, whom I still love very much, just don't agree with when it comes to religion. My grandfather was a minister, and my mother the church pianist. My father was a "hands-on-healer" in the Charasmatic movement (Pentacostal), and my step-mother is a former nun. (Yes, I said former nun). They're all great human beings, and I don't think I was particularly scarred. I went to church 4 times a week. I was in the choir. I was in the orchestra. I did the whole bit.
Again, you are not alone. Some of them are nice people, who just get a little pushy about their dogma, and would never dream of forcing me to drink koolaid.
Naomi -
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Thu, December 15, 2005 - 3:01 PMperhaps we could clarify what a fundementalist is. Does it mean"Not tollerant of other peoples viewpoints"? I was raised in a pentecostal home. There was no depth in experience, only black and white two dimensialism. -
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Mon, January 2, 2006 - 9:15 PMCzarina, Brock, et al,
I have just joined this tribe, and wonder whether to stay or move on. I don't know whether I am part of this family, or an alien. I need clarification of this tribe's focus, and have not found it in any of these posts. Which "fundamentalism" is this about?
Wikipedia says:
Fundamentalist Christianity, or Christian fundamentalism is a movement which arose mainly within American Protestantism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by conservative evangelical Christians, who, in a reaction to modernism, actively affirmed a "fundamental" set of Christian beliefs: the inerrancy of the Bible, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the authenticity of his miracles. This core set of beliefs was the "line in the sand" drawn by conservative Christians as they battled against the rise of rationalism, higher biblical criticism, and liberalism within Protestant denominations.
The nature of the Christian fundamentalist movement, while originally a united effort within conservative evangelicalism, evolved during the early-to-mid 1900s to become more separatist in nature and more characteristically dispensational in its theology.
The secular world's current perception of the term "fundamentalism" is colored by shifts in meaning on two fronts since the 1980s. First, the term was used in a negative sense for all Christian groups so deemed by liberal Lutheran theologian Martin E. Marty in his five-volume Fundamentalism Project[1] (although recent social science research has raised questions about his assessment[2]), and (2) during the holding of a number of Americans hostage in Lebanon, some members of the press began referring to the Islamic Hezbollah captors as "Islamic fundamentalists", and consequently the term has increasingly come to have pejorative connotations of extremism and even terrorism.
And Wikipedia is right on in objectivity. Is this about children of historical Fundamentalism, of Evangelical Christianity, or Christianity in general, or . . .? -
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Sun, May 28, 2006 - 8:17 PMI knew decent people who were also very devout, however most of the people I was surrounded with were complete hypocrites, which fueled my early distrust in Christianity and later my complete rejection of it. I think your experience, Czarina, was maybe a little more positive, based more around thankfulness and respect than fear and the need to retract oneself and family from "the world". Please correct me if I'm wrong and I apologize in advance for making assumptions. For a person with a strict Christian upbringing, the word "fundamentalist" tends to conjure up images kool-aid and stern-faced Puritans and such.
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Re: Clarifying this Tribe's focus
Sat, June 10, 2006 - 3:50 PMI rarely login to Tribe, but out of boredom, did so today. (Note, I didn't say I don't read certain forums periodically.)
As a So. Bapt. I would like to remind those who think all fundamentalists are stupid sheep, etc.; who feeds the poor? Who built the hospitals that are not run by large corporations? Growing up in the Bible Belt in the '50's and '60's gives me a different perspective to those born after Nixon resigned.
I may evenutally stop laughing at the comment about pagans being boring! A good Bible thumping preacher is hard to find anymore. Bad ones are a dime a dozen. (My pastor is a compassionate man, not a thumper.) Bible thumping as acting might be an interesting thing to discuss.
I rarely consider myself a fundamentalist. I'm a Baptist. Co-operative Baptist Fellowship, thank you very much! Thinking person's Baptist. When I think of fundamentalism, I tend to think of the smaller branches of Christianity, such as the Pentacostals and other holy rollers.
Find something to laugh at today. Life's too short.
